EPISODE #59 – Human Retroviruses, Chronic Illness & Scientific Prejudice

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EPISODE #59 – Human Retroviruses, Chronic Illness & Scientific Prejudice

Radio interview transcript from January 14, 2015. Sayer Ji with Judy Mikovits, Ph.D on Fearless Parent Radio. Listen to the show here.


Sayer:    Hello everyone.  This is Sayer Ji and I am so excited to be part of Fearless Parent with my inaugural radio show and I can't think of a better guest to start off with who is Judy Mikovits.  She is the author of the new book that I have the great honor of reading before its release and I can tell you that this is probably the most life-changing book for me when it comes to truly understanding the unintended adverse effects of many of the biomedical technologies that we take for granted today as being life-saving, for example vaccination and blood products and many of the technologies that are being used medically have a dark side.  And this book and this woman was the most representative of the fearlessness of just a few folks out there that are willing to stand up and tell the truth about scientific prejudice and conflicts of interest and really is such a brilliant person that I am just blown away by her mind and of course, the info.  We have a lot of people who come to us looking for research that supports natural intervention etc. and Judy is a researcher.  She has published more than 50 peer-reviewed articles in some of the world's top medical journals and she's been profiled in Discover magazine, Wall Street Journal, New York Times.  She spent twenty years working at the National Cancer Institute and is really, I think, one of the foremost experts on neuro-immune diseases and the links with chronic fatigue and autism and many of the issues that we're all so concerned with.  So without any more delay, I'd love to introduce you Judy and get this started by talking about your new book Plague.  And why is it called Plague?


Judy:     Good morning, Sayer and thank you for that kind introduction. It's called Plague simply because there is what I found in the course my study of neuro-immune disease since 2006 is simply a plague of corruption in medical science.  As you said, for more than 20 year veteran at the National Cancer Institute, you could've blown me away that I would have lived through the events described in Plague – including my false arrest and incarceration.  We don't get that that happens in this country so it's a plague of corruption.


Sayer:    Amazing.  So for those who are not aware of what happened is there a way to summarize your story and the basic themes of the book in a few minutes?


Judy:      Uh, sure.  It's simple. My co-author Kent convinced me to write this book shortly after the events surrounding my arrest and incarceration.  I was wrongfully terminated.  Six weeks later I was arrested in my home in California without warning, without arrest warrant, I was held in jail for five days.  My work was retracted without any reason.  It was retracted from the journal Science.  The journal Science played a role in this corruption by portraying wrongfully and not with fact the events of a discovery of new retrovirus infecting up to 6% of the human population.  So that means that 6% of the U.S. is, and maybe Europe, is infected with this new AIDS type retrovirus.  And this started the firestorm.   This is the events surrounding that paper is essentially what the entire book is about and my incarceration and where we've gone since then. 


Sayer:    So for those listening, this is such a really quite amazing fact, is that the work that you published the journal Science, one of the highest impact medical journals that exists, was in 2009, is that correct?


Judy:       That's correct.


Sayer:    The retrovirus known as xenotropic mirroring which means mouse origin leukemia virus related virus, the acronym XMRV is what we are referring to and found that there was an association with chronic fatigue sufferers and this virus.  Is that correct?

Virus Detected

Judy:      That is correct.  More than 70% of people in more than 1,000 patients we studied had evidence of this infection over the course.


Sayer:    So what you pointed out as well was that the control group had signs of infection as well.  What was the percentage again?


Judy:      The percentage in our original paper was 3.75% but in subsequent studies in prostate cancer where the virus was originally discovered and other cancers in the general population and recent studies said between 3.75 and 6%.  6% - that is more than 12 million Americans.


Sayer:    And that is the mind blowing part of this.  Because the implications of course is that this is a virus that is now widespread in human population and it was a byproduct of this corrective - a prostate cell line being passed through a nude mouse. Is that right?


Judy:      Yes, that is how the virus originated but we didn't know that until summer of 2011, the origin of the virus.  A nude mouse is one that's a technical term in science but the mice used in laboratories are all immune deficient because only immune deficient animals express retroviruses; their endogenous retroviruses.  This used to be a way of ameliorating the affects of things.  We used to inject human cancer and also human tissue to pathogens to calm them down so they are less infectious.  And what we learned in the summer of 2011 was that in fact in the laboratory we were re-creating a lot of replication confident.   That means infectious human retroviruses that could infect not only human cells but theoretically, human beings.   


Sayer:    It's amazing because what I have found to be most disturbing in my review of the research on what they call attenuated or "weakened" vaccines, the Live type is that the species boundaries that exist are just completely destroyed and they are constantly mixing together different species cells in conditions in which as you have pointed out may activate these latent viral sequences that are harmless when their incorporated over millions of years into a species, but then when they are exposed to these conditions they can be re-awakened, sort of like a Pandora's box, and so the implication of course is that you scratched the surface of this issue and because of that it caused such a profound violent reaction where they character assassinated you,  they incarcerated you under some of the most ridiculous pretenses.  Something like notebooks that you owned they claimed you took and that was like a felony. Is that what happened?


Judy:      I still don't know what happened. They came into my house; they took all of our computers – my husband's, my step-daughters.  They took our phones.  They held them for more than a year.  There were never any charges.  When the charges were eventually dropped almost a year later, the police didn't even know....we went to get our stuff back and the police were like what, there's nothing here. There was no paper trail it was that bad. 


Sayer:    Wow, so you were basically a political prisoner of sorts and this is an example of just how is a powder keg really when it comes to the issue that you uncovered and so now for those listening I guess it gets a little confusing but for people to know this is, our genome is, I think you quoted this, up to 15% is retroviral in origin.  Is that correct?


Judy:      That's correct.


Sayer:    OK and so that means that our very genome, which is believed to be fundamentally what makes us human, is actually a byproduct of many viral infections over millions of years and getting incorporated into our body and so that's an interesting fact.  It also indicates that all the species that we're experimenting on and producing biological products, including chimeric entities where they're taking half human half animal cells like for example to produce monoclonal antibodies through hybridomas, right?  They take the mouse spleen cells and then a human multiple myeloma line and input them together to produce all these biological products which they themselves might now be contaminated with all of these formally endogenous or harmless retroviral sequences that are now activated and become replication competent and then virulent.  Is that the case then that this opens up the possibility that a large number of biological products today being used are also contaminated with these retroviruses?


Judy:      Absolutely, and you characterize it so that what is happening now is that with the intention of curing one or a  few diseases we've created how many? In Hillary Johnson's forward of the book, she quoted Roger Dodd of the Blood Supply thing this was absolutely the doomsday scenario when this work was first shown to the National Institutes of Health, the CDC and FDA on July 22, 2009.  That is four months before it was published and this is chapter 12 or 11 in the book. It's just fascinating.  Each part of the book goes into great detail.  So the government at that time - every major government official,  every organization saw this work in a closed meeting in July 22, 2009.  Plague has details of that meeting including the documents from that meeting.  So everything in Plague is in fact backed up by documents from the government. So when this very government comes back and what they were worried about was that general population infected with retroviruses that could cause cancer, that could do this and the very production of all drugs and things that we know in biologicals today would have had to stop right then and there.


Sayer:    Wow, that is so huge.  Now you have actually called...this helps people contextualize the expense of the issue but this is basically the discovery of a type of infectious virus that is really a non-HIV AIDS or inability can cause immune system to crash to such a point that it's almost like what is most feared about the HIV/AIDS connection, is that correct?

Judy:      That's correct.  It's an AIDS like virus and I call all of these diseases non HIV/AIDS.  I consider autism, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic Lyme disease – they're acquired immune deficiencies because something in the environment takes a normal functioning immune system which should be able to if not clear these pathogens, silence them so they are not expressed.  When they are not expressed, they're not harmful.  Healthy people don't express retroviral genome; exodogenous, endogenous or otherwise.  


Sayer:    Wow.   And you have discussed as well the link between autism and the retroviral sort of connection.  Would you mind just maybe talking about that for a moment because I feel that with the latest disclosure from top CDC scientist Thompson that you know the timing of a vaccination is directly linked to autism prevalence in African-American children. I think that that this is all the more salient, is that right? 


Judy:      Absolutely and in fact, we had hypothesized...so I'll just back up a little bit.  So what we found when we were studying chronic fatigue syndrome, myalgic and encephalomyelitis, we did family studies.  We looked at studies, we asked where are there other what we call neuro-immune diseases which we considered autism from the beginning, an inflammation of the brain, you know, the brain on fire.  So we looked at families with cancers, lymphomas, leukemias and immune deficits, natural killer cells, front-line defense of your immune system that doesn't work, methylation machinery which we all know about, gastrointestinal disturbances. Things like just chronic active infections.  And in those families we uniformly found, very high levels of expression of these XMRV, these gamma retroviruses, and that started the firestorm, the hailstorm raining down on me and Mark and our coworkers because of course this was the tip of the iceberg. So when you look at the families and you start seeing the related diseases then you start putting together the acquired immune deficiency and it doesn't happen right away and in some people it never happens, but if you have a genetic susceptibility, if you have an epigenetic susceptibility - that is you live in an environment with heavy metals; where your intake of GMO foods – these are nucleic acids that could alter that expression of your genome as you talked about in the very beginning.  So it creates the perfect storm of immune dysfunction to where eventually the system crashes completely and you see disease.  And when you think about the role of the vaccines in this, let's just assume they don't harbor any infectious agents or any retroviral sequences which was not our original hypothesis; the job of a vaccine is to turn on the expression of your immune system.  It's to cause your B and T cells to divide and these are the very cells that harbor retroviruses because retroviruses can't integrate into a non-dividing cell.  So your blood epithelia, your blood cells – these are the only cells that divide in your body or a tumor cell.


Sayer:    That's profound.  So in other words, the use of adjuvant in order to hyper stimulate the replication of these lymphocytes are actually at the same moment causing the further replication of the retrovirus.  Is that right?


Judy:      That's exactly correct.


Sayer:    That's amazing assuming that originally the live viruses are one of the mechanisms by which these are introduced into the human population and that's something I really wanted to ask you was - it's not possible likely to know where this virus came from, although you can track it down phylogenetically when it comes to the medical intervention that may have brought this into being.  Do you have any theories on that?


Judy:      Well certainly for the mouse viruses, for the murine leukemia viruses, similar in our genomes it certainly came from using mice in research for now more than 60 years so since the 1950s when we first started making vaccines, so I worked in a laboratory for my whole life around the mouse facilities, every major company, everybody has a mouse facility.  So these are immune deficient mice by definition so that's how we studied cancer and the AIDS and that's how we developed the drugs as you said.  We make monoclonal antibody, this is Nobel prize-winning research from the 70s, this is how we make our biologicals and now theoretically 30% of them from a publication in 2011 by Zhang and (unintelligible)  30% of what we work with in our laboratories every day, side-by-side, with human cells have these murine like viruses, and (unintelligible) leukemia virus is another gamma retrovirus.  We work with monkey cell lines because of everything we've done with HIV/AIDS and until we hear that we now have the possibility for many viruses and they are literally coming through our research because those animals are immune incompetent and individual humans who are autoimmune incompetent or are deficient, which is what I consider the 6% of the population with inability to degrade RNA viruses; your RNA cell pathway.  You mentioned Thompson and I'll just digress because what we were studying at the time, had they simply published the honest research and said there's a susceptibility of black children.  Why black children?  Well this was before the sequencing of the genome and what we called it at that time, the hereditary prostate cancer gene 1, we later learned when the genome was sequenced was in fact RNA cell.  RNA is an RNA degradation pathway connected to your interferon pathway and when we looked at moms with breast cancer and dads with aggressive prostate cancer, we and our colleagues in an NIH proposed using the expression of an endogenous retrovirus which in the station population was ______ as a biomarker for who was going to develop the most aggressive cancers.  If they had simply said honest research, right there, we would've looked at children with a deficiency in RNHL and don't give them vaccines; delay it, promote it, give them only what necessary, wait until they're older, over three years old so that they have the defenses to fight it.  So then of course use things that could protect them while they're getting vaccinated as we always do with children at risk for HIV/AIDS.  We simply give them antiretroviral therapy in order to keep those viruses from being expressed. So there are solutions to the problem if we admit the problem but if we admit the problem I guess it affects the economy of nations.


Sayer:    Well again that's a profound statement.  You know it's really sad because there's a certain colorblindness that's apparent and it's really a violent form of racism, actually because you see this with the HPV vaccines that never targeted the genotype specific to malignancy in African-American women.  And it just really such a terrible situation you look at the way that they are hiding the science.  You know, the thing about your opening foreword, you had mentioned Hillary Johnson, she titled it "The Disease Able to Affect the Economy of Nations" and it seems that whenever you hit below the belt when it comes to financial interest there is such powerful backlash but it appears very clear that what we're talking about presently does immediately raise the worst possible red flag when it comes to the ______ principle.  The vaccine schedule should be halted immediately.  If this is the case, at least be assessed for the presence of these viruses. Now one of the studies that I was able to obtain is from 2009.  It was published in the Journal of Virology and looked at Rotateq vaccine and found that there was a simian retrovirus, a Class C retrovirus found within it that they said wasn't replication competent so the argument is that okay, well, it's not a cause of harm but you have done a lot of educating on the topic of how even in envelope sequences that right could you stimulate malignancy and tumor cells for example. Is that true that it doesn't have to be a fully replication competent retrovirus but a sequence itself could be harmful?


Judy:      Absolutely and more than that.  So my postdoctoral work with the NCI, we showed that defective retroviruses could actually transcribe their sequences, their RNA into DNA, and be translated into proteins.  And these proteins were - the envelope proteins, the gag proteins - they stimulate the immune system because that's nonself and the immune system is supposed to silence it.  So those proteins could be generating this disease engine if you will, where the cytokine and chemokine expression that we know is evident and all of these diseases with inflammatory reactions in the gut, the antibody that we found in 6% of the human recognizes the envelope protein.  So retroviruses are envelope; they have an envelope that is helical and protects the nucleic acid of the virus but at the same time the immune system recognizes that its nonself as foreign, as it should. So this is what we are finding in a large proportion suggesting they are harboring one or more envelope retroviruses. Because again, even your endogenous retroviruses, their self, they will not cause an antibody response but they can be expressed if the vaccine is harboring a non-replication competent, not defective virus and they can  re-combine.  This is what is what happened with XMRV.  The one with the human tissue from the prostate from that 60-year-old man created whatever the cell line was then re-combined with an expressed endogenous retrovirus that should not have been expressed.  So that makes the population that can't keep the endogenous viruses silent more at risk than even pieces and parts of retroviruses in the vaccines, in the drugs, in GMO foods.  These carry genetic sequences and those genetic sequences are known to stimulate the immune system. This is how we can start thinking of all the autoimmune disease that continues to increase one and two, you know the organization oneandtwo.org.  If we do nothing in the next generation, in the next 20 years, one and two people in this country will have a chronic autoimmune-like disease and our economy simply can't sustain that.


Sayer:    Well one of the new technologies being employed today is RNA interference systems to manipulate these GMO plants so that instead of inserting new sequences into the genome they are just silencing the RNAs and these interference systems when we eat them, you know like in the case of GMO corn grown this way, could also silence a number of our genes and their expressions. So there are so many layers to how...either way we are manipulating our food, obviously it can feed into this issue. Now you had talked about the component that is related to stress and because of the hormone responsive elements being involved in activation of retroviruses, can you speak to that at all, maybe the gender differences even, women more expected then men; are they dealing with more stress?


Judy:      Gender differences early on, of course we see more of the prevalence of the autism in boys than girls, it all relates back to hormones and the hormones, actually cortisol, things like that, the whole hormone system is directly related in the HKE axis if you will so stress, the stress elements in the promoters – that's the stress sites of these viruses - there are multiple sites where stress hormones just simply turn on the expression.  You mentioned earlier the HPV vaccines.  People often will describe to me and their families and in themselves that the disease onset was puberty.  Puberty is a huge problem.   What do we have?  Turning on the hormones.  In women – menopause.  Whenever there is a huge birth hormone response then you can imagine a burst of expression of these elements. As you mentioned, the SRI technologies that is the silencing RNAs, you're exactly right.  I consider this an  acceleration of the mutation of the human genome.  We are actually accelerating our genome and the evolution of our genome and it's not in a good way.  It's towards the promotion of disease because we are not thinking about the perfect storm we're creating or if we are thinking about it, someone like me, we're being silent so that the people don't understand or the complexity is such that they said they drop their hands and say oh that can't possibly be but it is.  And when you read Plague, every chapter pretty much stands alone and it tells you about the plague in our midst of chronic disease and the plague of corruption.


Sayer:   Amazing.  I mean if people look at it through perspective, it's taken millions of years for our species to incorporate what were originally maybe very dangerous viruses from the outside, you know, coming in and now in the matter of just 50 years we've completely unlocked this process that safeguards us.  Some of these sequences are fundamental to our health.  The placenta itself, I believe, exists because of the retroviral DNA so it's just amazing to consider how we have wrecked ourselves genetically and epigenetically in such a short amount of time.  Now, when it comes to those who are suffering, I imagine that quite a few people with this condition and unaware of this connection are now thinking what can I do?  Because of the way in which this has been censored, there is not really a test that they can take, is there? And if not, what are some things you think they could still to incorporate this information?


Judy:      Well, actually, there's a lot we can do so I wouldn't...your last statement was put in the past tense about what we've done to our genome and I know many think we can't know stop it or reverse it but I have great confidence that we can because we have the knowledge now of how it occurred.  You mentioned the vaccine schedule.  One of the things we look at is we look to what changed?  What changed before this increase in this epidemic of autism, asthma, MECFS, chronic Lyme disease; epidemics in these chronic immune dysfunction disease, ALS - I can just go on and on – MS, cancers. What happened? What changed? Well primarily, I guess the first thing that changed, and you mentioned it, was our vaccines; not only the schedule but multiple vaccines and the schedule of earlier and earlier.   People my age didn't get vaccines until we were at least over five years old. So what the Thompson study found was that black boys were more susceptible and boys in general were more susceptible if they were given MMR before three. I was talking to my nephew as he had a baby and after reading Plague he turns to me and says, "Aunt Judy what do I do?" And I said, "Jack, what you do best?" "Oh Aunt Judy, procrastinate."  First it's multiple sub-unit vaccines.  I develop drugs and cancer for 40 years and we always test each thing that is added in the combination in a full clinical trial before we do that.  Why don't we do that in vaccines?  Why do we just assume more is better and throw in MMR three completely different antigens and a very young immune system that is going to send one arm of the immune system in one direction, the other arm in the other direction.  It's like your iPhone going off where everybody jumps and they don't know what to do.  So you render your entire immune system energic and you're energic for how long depending on your inability to methylate these sequences. And of course these things are actually using substrates.  So one thing you can do is make sure that you have good food.  No inflammation, no other sources of inflammation.  No gluten, no GMOs.  It becomes difficult because as you said, it prejudices the rich versus people who can't afford these things.  So now have the problem of nurses who can't get a flu vaccine because maybe they have MECFS in their family or other diseases and the vaccine will literally hurt them.  And so they lose their job.  I know a young woman who has brothers with autism two non-identical twin sibling brothers with autism.  She got the first of the HPV vaccine and started with inflammation and CFS like symptoms so can't go to college.  We are actually causing economic disadvantages because of laws that say we have to do this.  So we have to start a movement really to say no – we won't do this; we are not going to be on a doctor's schedule; we're going to protect their families.  And there are lots of good supplementation, good nutrients; there's a lot we can do.  Give antiretroviral therapy. Give it to babies or people at risk of HIV, even in utero and declare this safe.  Tony Fallci, a couple years ago, the 2 year old cleared of HIV.  We hear these stories.  These things are not more harmful than what we're giving in order to vaccinate so we can protect the human health.  I am not an anti-vaxxer.  I worked twenty two years at NCS.  I helped develop many of these drugs and I know that they can help people but we have to think about its not one-size-fits-all but there's a lot we can do. 


Sayer:    I just love the fact that you are raising vaccine awareness in such a way that you know a lot of skeptics would listen to some of the things you said and oh my gosh, she's such an anti-vaxxer when in fact you are just raising awareness as a scientist.  The fact that you were able to get this information to the top of the evidence food chain published in Science of all publications and then immediately they tried to destroy you and incarcerate you, it just speaks to how powerful this information is and I just hope that everyone listening really takes the time to learn more about your work as well as acquire the book and then read it.  It reads like a novel as well as really brilliant scientific text.  I know I've been greatly encouraged influenced by it.  So the message is yes, there are things we can do.   First and foremost is obviously removing the exposures that we know are contributing as well as using anti-inflammatory diets etcetera.  So where are we moving forward?  What do you see?  Is it that we need to implement a movement and politically actually go after the indemnification of vaccine manufacturers and try to bring that to the table.  What do you suggest, if anything, as far as what we can all do?


Judy:      I think it needs to be a movement because it's written in the book when I was overseas a few years ago in Ireland a member of Parliament said to me "You know, Judy, I don't understand much of what you said in the science but if it's autism, if it's MECFS, if it's chronic Lyme, if it's cancer, if it's 6% - that's 20 million Americans you have a voting voice and you can say, 'No more, we won't take it anymore'" and that becomes on our TV shows, on our radio shows, do the studies, do the studies. Stop using our families as scientific experiments. They're discussing this at FDA meetings; discussing xenograph technologies.  They're discussing the possibility that this could've happened in 1991 and yet they're doing nothing and then with the publication of my work with the Zhang study in 2011, with the realization of what XMRV was - that doesn't lessen the risk, it increases the information.  Why don't we hear now, at that July 22nd meeting before our paper was published, four months before our paper was published describing XMRV as a new human retrovirus which we isolated from patients that never changed.  All that was wrong about it was the sequence of that virus.  There are still viruses out there that people don't know sequences of so therefore you can't test.  There is no test because they simply say it doesn't exist but it does exist if you look for reverse transcriptase.  Hundreds, if not thousands, of publications on the first transcriptase that's a line that is unique to retroviruses. It's in ALS, it's in multiple sclerosis, it's in MECFS, it's in autism, it's in many lymphomas, leukemias and breast cancers and prostate cancers that it's not expressed in the human genome of a healthy person.  Therefore, it's a biomarker of disease.  We simply have to stay with our voting voice - don't let them separate us into getting miniscule funds; this is NIAID's job.  We put billions of dollars into looking at the AIDS retrovirus. Let's put those billions of dollars into incorporating all of these diseases.  We're in women's health, we're in nothing, we're in psychiatric studies.  We're not crazy, we're sick; we're not contaminated, we're infected.  I've said that since the very beginning we can voice our vote; we can say "No".  We can say no to these things.  We can simply procrastinate.  We can stop going to the doctors; they're not wellness visits when they're injecting your beautiful baby with something that you have no idea what's in it and you can watch your child get sicker and sicker with every shot and have somebody tell a parent there crazy.  


Sayer:    We've survived through these sorts of exposures given what we're all going through today and seeing young ones especially.  The amazing thing about reverse transcriptase is that it wasn't discovered until the 70s but the master feedstocks for many of the vaccines and then obviously biologicals that are still being produced from them were developed in the 50s and 60s so they weren't even aware of the possibility of a type of virus that incorporates itself into the genome because they didn't have evidence. So now as we move forward, it's clear that this technology is just shot through with this type of risk.  One thing that I would like to bring up is that there are other viruses that are being found in cancers for example, the MMTV virus, it's another mouse virus. So it seems like the research is continuing to confirm that you know the type of discovery you have made is really possibly happening all over the world in different types of conditions.  I would hope that the research community continues to explore and test for these infectious agents.  So are there other viruses that you know of that are being looked at now as well?


Judy:      Absolutely.  Andy Mason described what he calls human beta retrovirus they are alpha-beta gamma Greek alphabet defined but in his wisdom he didn't call it mouse mammary tumor virus related virus.  Since I started working in cancer in 1980, I found, we found, and I've been studying and interested in all of the MMTV other viruses so HBRV is firmly associated with primary biliary cirrhosis.  That is a kind of cirrhosis of the liver and fatty liver disease is going up and up and up and that's contributing to the inability to detox other things in our environment.  It creates a disease engine or a perfect storm.  Unfortunately, Andy Mason was a strong supporter of our work.  As you said, is this research going on? No! They're silencing it.  The Journals and the NIH control the funding. So the minute you write a grant and say I'm going to study this, they don't fund the grant.  Science the Journal retracts a paper.  When you retract a paper it implies fraud.  There was never any fraud.  Silverman made a mistake in a sequence of a virus; sequencing the virus we sent to him. That's all.   We are censoring our science, which we are.  We are using funny statistics that say nope, no, there's no problem or as quoted in our book, found in one of the patient cohorts in a multicenter study in fact a high level of retrovirus. But he said of course, knowing the history of this, the MECFS, we're not going to study it.   They look at the history – what happened to Judy; what happened to Elaine DeFritas? Every time somebody describes this their career is ruined.  Another generation is put at risk because we are simply censoring.  What honest scientist would ever study a link between retroviruses vaccines and any disease after my mug shot appears in arguably one of the best scientific journals in the world?  That tells you this was not the whole storyline following the events of Plague.  Following the events of XMRV virus discovered in prostate cancer, never isolated until our study, this was the first virus that was cloned before it was isolated and that is of critical importance.  We isolated it from a virus from the human beings, we sent it to the laboratory of our collaborator Bob Silverman and he tried three times to sequence the gamma retrovirus we found and it wasn't XMRV Silverman.  And then he tried again and at that point he contaminated our samples.  People don't understand that he never sent us a sample.  He doesn't isolate viruses, we do.  Why is Frank Bruzetti, the person who co-discovered or co-isolated first human retrovirus HTLV-1 associated with both neurological diseases and causative for an aggressive cancer, why was he forced out of research?  When you read the events of Plague, you can't come up with anything other than a conspiracy.  So yes, we can study them.  Are we going to? No. Look at Thompson, his whole career was put at risk so he did the wrong thing; he didn't do the right thing, but he is not where I am, is he? He's not unemployed without the possibility of ever working again in a laboratory, having lost every cent of money I ever made in my career.  My reputation, my family name -why would anybody study that again?


Sayer:    Well it's because of folks like you; the first wave on the battlefield so to speak, that any of us have the hope in protecting our own health as well as our children's health which is our primary focus so we have you to thank for that.


Judy:      We can protect our families.  I can't work but I won't stop talking.


Sayer:    We need to get the story out to as many people as possible and I know you have an upcoming event that I will be looking forward to attending in Minneapolis. Is that something you might want to mention?


Judy:      We are going to be in Minneapolis.  We are going to be at the University of Minnesota. It's a HealthChoice and it's questioning the vaccine program.  It's not only me but a number of people who have published through Skyhorse.  Skyhorse by the way should really be commended as a publishing company who is not afraid to tackle the difficult issues.  There is one thing we can't stop and that's our voice.  It's our First Amendment right to speak, to publish, to write, to talk about these things in this meeting that HealthChoice is sponsoring in Minneapolis, Minnesota.  It's on January 24. It will have not only me but Wayne Rodhe talking about vaccine core; Dr. David Lewis and his fascinating book Science for Sale, Science for Sale of his work in the Environmental Protection Agency.  Just take the "P" out of it like CDC – they're only controlling the disease information; they're not doing anything about controlling the disease. Kent and I will both be there. Anne Dachel will talk about the big autism cover-up. Lewis Conte also will talk about the autism war.  Vaccine Epidemic, Louise Habakus' book will be discussed there as well as Vaccines 2.0.  This is a day long.  You will have the opportunity to talk to all of the authors. I believe all registrants will get copies of all of the books.  So this is a place you want to be if you can get a representative or get to Minneapolis.  I know that Minneapolis is not a place to be in January so bring your snow shoes and come to this event.


Sayer:      It's going to be a great event and seeing you in person is one reason why I will be making the effort.  One thing that I didn't want to forget is that you talk also about the virus being aerosolized.  So that is a significant dimension which I imagine also gave the powers that be reason to try to repress this is as much as possible, so can you just talk on that for a moment?


Judy:      Speaking of aerosolized, this is so the idea with retroviruses and many of the RNA viruses like Ebola and things like that is - it's okay folks, you have to come in contact with contaminated blood and body fluids and lots of them but what we found in our early family studies where of course we didn't take blood from young children, we simply use saliva test kit, we captured saliva from all of the family members and found expressed sequences of these viruses.  So RNA, DNA, found reverse transcriptase activity.  So this is in the saliva. It possibly can go through the air; sneezing or aerosolized, water droplets you can't see – that's aerosolized.  So the idea that was confirmed in _______ work and how we found that some of the cultures were work actually getting contaminated with the Silverman virus along with our other virus that we identified was because simply putting them in the same airspace for five days would infect 30% of them.  That is amazing for me as a scientist.  Obviously I was exposed to considerable amount of XMRV virus. I zero converted as did many of the lab workers in many of the studies from the very beginning.  Zero converting means we made an antibody to it.  We were exposed.  There's absolutely no doubt I was infected.  My study number was used in many of the studies even to say there was no problem that I was contaminated.  So this is the big problem with aerosolization.  I have a healthy immune system and no history of these kind of diseases but at what point does this become the perfect storm and reckless endangerment of millions of lab workers?  I can't tell you how many lab workers who work in these gene therapy programs and things like that with these viruses said, "My family got sick; I got sick."  So aerosolization, yes!  It gets into the human genome.  Once you find an immune competent person not like me, then theoretically yes, I can spread it through my family.  If you are immune suppressed, if you are unaware of an immune deficiency, if you have a cold, you can you can expect these things and yes, I'm sure it's low level because it's not rampant but this is what they don't want you to know.  We're going to control the panic.  Well it's not panic if you simply protect yourself and clean surfaces with things like Borax and make sure you let your dishes through the dishwasher and make sure you don't share saliva, share food, share body fluid.  These gamma retroviruses are extremely stable in urine.  Think then about our food, think then about if it goes from the mouth to the cow to the goat to the milk.  Think again about GMOs.  Nobody wants to hear these things but we go back and say what changed?  What changed in the 70s and 80s? Bovine growth hormone. I worked in 1986 in a major drug company and 87 where they kept telling you and others that these were safe.  That human cells weren't affected by bovine growth hormone and my data showed the exact same opposite.  Obviously, I'm not in that job and I didn't stay there very long, but this was also censored.  They're safe, they're safe, they're safe. So honest technicians and honest scientists lose their jobs and never get hired again. 


Sayer:    Well if you dig deep into things like organic dairy products like Horizon and Organic Valley they actually publish on their site clearly that they vaccinate their animals.  Some of those vaccines probably contain GMO ingredients but when you think of mouse mammary tumor virus or MMT viruses are transmitted through milk you can only imagine what we are exposing ourselves to biologically through just consuming regular milk for example.  It's quite remarkable.  Anything is so contaminated with these biologicals from the ground up that they can't really be avoided.  


Judy:      Correct and then things like glyphosate, aluminum, changing the expression, allowing them to be expressed more. So when people say, "I eat all organic" or "I'm eating non-pasteurized goat's milk" I'm cringing. It brings up an important point with prevention. So HTLV-1, human t-lymphotrophic virus 1, isolated in 1980 or so 78 and what they did, this was endemic in Japan maybe 3 to 6%, the numbers we are seeing with these viruses here, causing this very aggressive leukemia in 1% of the patients.  Think about it.  The overall lifetime risk of disease is only 5% if you have an HTLV-1 infection.  What did they do?  They protected the blood supply and they stopped breast-feeding at six weeks when maternal antibodies no longer protected the fetus and they eliminated in those four years, they eliminated the beast.  Japan is back to being a safe place to be.  So Frank Bruzetti's lab learning that there is hope. There are things we can do.  There are protections.  Breast-feeding has been going up and up and up to where some people are breast-feeding their children for several years.  So if you have this in your family and mom has fibromyalgia, CFS, anything that that could say you're expressing your endogenous viruses when you're sick or when you're feeling worse simply not breast-feed.  There are ways to filter. The FDA, a month or so ago, approved a technology to clean the blood or to pass some liquid through and kill these viruses.  You can kill the virility of them or the ability to replicate them.  You can filter them out.  There are lots of things that we can do to make sure they are not in our biological products and that technology with a company called CERUS and not inconsequentially, I worked with them in 2009, 2010 and 2011.  We showed that this technology would in fact eliminate the infectious ability of XMRVs if they were there so you don't have to detect them, let's just clean it up.  We have the technology and we have the expertise.


Sayer:    Judy you are just so amazing and I wish I could listen to you and interview you for hours.  I can't believe it but our show is over in just a minute and I just want to thank you so much for being part of this and doing the work that you're doing.  It's extremely encouraging to anyone who cares about the future and I think everyone should really take to heart this information.  Please look into Judy's book and then how can we reach you?  Are there any last words you would like to say?


Judy:      Well you can reach me through plaguethebook.com, our website.  We also have a small consulting company just me and Frank called marconsultinginc.com. The world knows my phone number and I usually answer it.  I'm happy to talk to people that reach out for help.


Sayer:    That's excellent and the consulting is regarding all issues related to science as well as would you say some of the activism as well?


Judy:      Absolutely.  The website will show both our complete CDs, any presentation that I give we put on marconsultinginc.com.  We talk to people.  I check email through there; answer them as fast as I can. If I don't answer you in a couple of days, write me back.  I'll remember and I'll answer you again.  I might well be unemployed but I spent a large part of everyday doing everything I can to help people and spread Plague


Sayer:    Thank you so much Judy.  Thank you everyone for listening.  This has been an episode of Fearless Parent.  Please tune-in for future episodes where we go right to the heart of the matter, talking to scientists, researchers and activists out there.   Thanks so much.

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